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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: strenthening cabin/firewall
Message-Id: <E0zl3gE-0002ho-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:14:25 -0500
100594RB-3 Tail section reinforcement ??? Is that the extra triangular
pieces on the sides ?? I don't remember THAT one by number ...(old age ??!!)
You're right, Joel !! Murphy has been a little lax in updating
the builders about SOME areas, in the past. I believe they have improved
the system considerably, now, so most people won't be left in the dark...
We'd LOVE to have you, and any other builders down your way, come
to our meetings !!!
The 'door frame mod.' , and MANY others, are NOT official factory
mods (or even officially sanctioned by the factory) - they are just
common-sense improvements developed through field experience, and passed
back to builders at the Rebel Builders Meetings. The heavier channel -
ST-28 -> ST-31 (I'm not even sure of the numbers now, it's been such a
long time since this was suggested) is used in the stabilizer, so we
just order a couple of extra pieces for the door frames. Waaaay back
there, these frames were .016, then upgraded to .020, but most builders
decided that, since this area receives a fair beating loading luggage,
that the heavier material (same size & shape, but thicker) from the
stab. would be a better choice. - maybe not strictly necessary, but
a small contribution to durability...
These ideas/suggestions are NOT mandatory, or even DESIRABLE,
for some builders - we just present the idea, the reason for it, and
the 'how/where/when' of it - the idea is to stimulate builders thoughts.
Many are now considering WHY they might (or might NOT) want to do
what 'Joe' did on his kit - and often say " Well, that might be good
for HIS intended use, but <I> don't want to add that much weight to
MY Rebel ...." This is GREAT !! That's the true spirit of homebuilding
- don't just do something because somebody ELSE did it, and think of
your OWN needs/desires - then bounce the ideas off a group of (well,
some of them, anyway ..) VERY experienced builders ! We have AIR-ABA
inspectors, (the guys who will be approving your completed Rebel !)
some with decades of aircraft manufacturing experience, who attend
the meetings fairly regularly, and occasionally can be persuaded to
give a little talk on, say ... 'aircraft fasteners'.
There have been MANY very useful ideas promoted at the Rebel
Builders Meetings, and <SOME> of them are even now part of the official
Rebel manual (like Brian Cross's EXCELLENT drawings & details on installing
the fuel tank skins !!). We have been through ALL SORTS of ideas & ways
to pass on these ideas - we've tried taking minutes at meetings, video
recording, audio recording, and I even built a 'tips & tricks' database
program, indexed by part (stab, rudder, aileron , etc.) - NONE of these
was found effective. - Taking minutes was great, until 5 people started
talking at once, and the topic was so interesting that everyone stopped
taking notes ...... etc.
Eventually, we just decided " To heck with it !! If you want to
benefit from all this experience, just COME TO THE MEETING !!"
Of course, this was meant for the local builders - it's a bit hard
for you folks so far away .... Still, we have had a van full of
Rebel builders drive 5 hours each way, from Ottawa, Ontario, just to
attend a few meetings - they said "It was worth the drive - 2 little
suggestions saved us HOURS of grief !!" ... and we have had 3 aircraft,
and a few cars, drive up from Michigan, as well.
This is not to say that the meetings are the 'great solution' -
we bring in a good supply of coffee & donuts, and sometimes only 10
or 12 builders show up !! Sometimes, it's more of a social event,
- we go out for pizza & beer afterwards - and sometimes, great
discoveries are shared. Still, they must get SOMETHING out of it
- they keep coming ....
Maybe the answer would be to form Rebel Builders groups in any
area where there are more than 2 or 3 Rebels - this could still be a
great benefit. We also do Builder Visits (just had one last weekend),
where you can see how the other guy is doing, and where, with what tools.
This builder visit was at Mike Fuller's, and we saw 2 different tools
for dimpling - one was a pair of dimple dies welded to the jaws of
a pair of vise-grip pliers - slick !!
We will be happy to help with anything along any of these
lines - just let us know !!
And don't forget the Rebel Rambles - our annual Fly 'n Camp
trips. We're going to Winnipeg in 1999, as a warm-up for the big
one in 2000 - out to the West Coast (and maybe on to Alaska) !!
Everyone welcome !! In any kind of aircraft !! A target date to
finish that REBEL !!
.....bobp
-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 11:04 AM 12/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
How does 'everybody' find out about the .025 or .032 ST-31 and where do we
get it? I sure am thankful for these little tips but I sure wish there was
a builders FAQ or something somewhere so I could read up on what everybody
should know! I just looked through all my Bulletins Murphy sent me:
100594RB-1 Fuel system mods
100594RB-2 Sealent compatibility
100594RB-3 Tail section reinforcement
082994REB Adding support struts to landing gear (N/A - spring gear)
062695RB Drilling of landing gear legs (N/A - spring gear)
070395RB More fuel system mods
051198RB Inboard spring attach bolt
None say anything about increasing the thickness of the door frames. Don't
get me wrong Bob, if you say they should be made from thicker material -
they will be! I just feel a little in the dark here. Maybe I need to get
up to one of your builders meetings and get enlightened ;>)
Joel
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: strengthening cabin/firewall
Very few people have mentioned doing anything about the panel
between the bottom of the door and the bottom of the fuse - THIS <IS>
an area I've seen flexing & bowing, to the extent that it can be hard
to close the door ! If you're still building, I'd remake this plate
out of .032, AND add some pieces of wing stringer or ST-31 vertically
between the base & the door frame. By now, I hope everybody is using
.025 or .032 ST-31 for the door frames, instead of the old .016 stuff ...
