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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Amphibious Rebel questions
Message-Id: <E0zTciD-00057Y-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:00:21 -0400
Whew !! Here we go again !!! No easy questions ! (or answers :-) )
A Champ, Luscombe, or Taylorcraft would certainly have MUCH lower
performance (I've flown all of them), especially on floats !! You can't
carry three people, or even 2 people & a lot of camping gear, or full
fuel ...
An O-320 Rebel, with 2 people aboard usually gets off the water
in about 12 seconds on amphibs - as low as 6 seconds solo ! And even
faster on straight floats.... (3 people on amphibs takes about 22 seconds)
Rebel climb rate on amphibs is 800 - 1,100 fpm ! The T-Craft might
give 400 - 600 fpm on straight floats, on a good day.
Rebel cruise on amphibs is 108 - 110 mph. Most older aircraft are
lucky to see 85 - 90 on straight floats.
Most people these days don't want certified aircraft - they cost
'WAY too much to maintain, and you're at the mercy of AME's (A&P's), many
of whom use apprentices to do the work, and know little of the methods for
maintaining older aircraft.... (Been there, spent the money - almost $17,000
during a 3 year period just to keep an Aeronca Super Chief (11-CC) airworthy
and legal !! Sold it a year later for $9,500 - and it took 5 months to sell
!)
Similar experiences with the Aeronca Sedan that preceded the Super Chief -
it sold for $10,000 ...
In the U.S., homebuilts <have> sold for less, but that is changing.
In Canada, Rebels have been selling lately for $63,000 to $65,000,
on wheels, with Lyc. O-235 engines. This is because they are considered a
"poor man's C-180". (Actually, 4" wider inside than a 180 !) And where
can you buy a 'brand-new' C-180 - or a brand-new <almost anything> ??!!!
I know of a Rebel with an O-320, on wheels, that sold for $53,000US in
Wisconsin last year.. Considerably more than you'd likely get for a T-craft
!
Suppose you wanted "seaplane doors" for your Champ ?? - tons of
paperwork, STC's, etc., and $$$$$. For the Rebel - just DO IT !!
Amphib floats for an 85 hp. Luscombe - forget it !! Even if you
could afford to get them approved, you'd have a hard time getting it off
the water.
As for interior space & pilot comfort - the Rebel beats ALL of
the older aircraft.
Of course, these are only my views - your mileage may differ ;-) !!
As for the costs, I think you are a little high - we usually average
about $35,000 to $45,000 CANADIAN for a Rebel - that's about $1.50 US !! :-)
Really about $20,000 - 30,000 US, depending on your scrounging skills !
(Of course, if you want Dual ILS and Weather Radar .... :-) )
Item 3 - most folks prefer the 150 hp. O-320's, because they're
less expensive, and can burn car gas (or 'boat gas' - if you are at a
marina).
Items 5 & 7 are special ONLY if you use the "speed cowl" - which is
not a good idea for floats, as it is more awkward to remove for work on
floats. Looks sexy, though !
Item 8 is definitely NOT a good idea for floats - the full span
flapperons get you off faster.
Item 10 is nice, but some of our builders have achieved a nicer
(IMHO) effect by using lightweight automotive carpet velcro'd to the roof.
Item 9 - dual brakes ARE nice for training and checkouts, BUT, if
you're going to be on straight floats, they're just extra weight !! (There
are no brakes on floats :-) )
There - just by skipping those extras, you've saved over $3,000,
or more !!
That's about all ! To me, the real joy of owning a Rebel is the
FREEDOM to change whatever, whenever, to have a truly CUSTOM aircraft.
I can use the propeller <I> want, on the engine <I> want - NOT what some
'burro-crat' decided was suitable and safe in 1946 !
And now, a word from our sponsors ...... :-)
Give me a call when you're ready to order your Rebel !!!
(905) 457-5238 - "Have I got a deal for YOU !!!"
....bobp
----------------------orig.------------------------------------------
At 10:02 AM 10/8/98 EDT, you wrote:
orBob Patterson: Appreciate your thoughtful and learned answers to my naive
questions. Now for a tough one. In pricing out a Murphy Rebel, with these
components:
1. Firewall back
2. Floats (straight) 8. Split flaps
3. Overhauled 160 HP Lyc 9. Dual brakes
4. O-320 Mount 10. Headliner
5. Spinner 11. Float attach points
6. Prop 12. Crating charge
7. Exhaust 13. Misc. (upholstery, radios, instruments,
wiring, etc.)
For those parts I estimate ~ $40,000
Now for the tough question #3. I could buy and rebuild a Champ, Luscombe,
certifiedTaylorcraft (comparable parts) for a little more ($3000?) and have a
highercraft that probably has a better resale value but lower performance and
maintenance costs.
So simply, in your opinion, why else should I build any experimental
aircraft over rebuilding a certified aircraft?
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